"Most people want to see proof that art sustains a living and yet still expect artists to work for free."
"Artists Out Here Doing the Things" Vol. 2: Joi Katskee
HowdyHo Folkerinos!
That’s a very Ned Flanders greeting, but I’m excited to be back this week with Volume 2 of my series “Artists Out Here Doing the Things,” featuring Substack’s beloved Joi Katskee.
To recap, many of the fears and struggles I share about in my substack are universal among creatives, and I thought it would be nice to hear from other artists how they are managing and overcoming them.
I have been following Joi’s music and art Substack for a while. She does incredible work with video collage, and I will probably hire her out at some point to create a music video for me or projections for my live shows. However, I first became a fan of Joi from her radio show Electric Radio Club, which I like to put on when I am tidying the house. I had forgotten how nice it was to have an actual human (with great tastes) pick my music!
We talk about defining your work when it doesn’t squarely fit anywhere, being an artist over multiple mediums, and creating your own opportunities even when others are saying “no.”
(PS: I would love to hear from you about opportunities you have created for yourself. I think we can all be inspired by stories like Joi’s of knocking down walls, so GET IN THE COMMENTS AND INSPIRE US!)
Part of being an artist is learning to choose yourself over and over again, but it’s also some of the hardest work to remain in integrity with ourselves and our art.
xxC
1. Tell us about yourself as an artist! Tell us what you make and where we can find it!
My current medium is video art collage. I record video footage from my surroundings whether that be on my way to work or during a trip. I love layering video footage to create my own kind of effect to encourage the viewer to look at familiar things in a new way.
I’ve worked in nearly every medium so I consider myself a multi-hyphenate artist. This came about due to a mix of curiosity and ways to market my work. All of my work is inspired by music. Each piece or line of work is influenced by a song lyric one way or another.
Another non-artist but creative project I have is my DIY Radio Show called Electric Radio Club. It’s like having a creative conversation with a friend who made you a mixtape.
2. How did you become an artist?
I’ve never thought about it like that before. This may sound silly but I’ve just always been one.
My dad would take me to the art supply store when I was little and I’d feel so lucky that he would buy me drawing journals. In high school, my mom lent me her sewing kit and so I could sew on patches to my jackets. Creativity was always encouraged.
However, I’m the oldest of four kids so I was usually being a mini-mom to my siblings over making art. The only art classes I took were the electives in public school.
I remember a couple of my art teachers being really amazed by my skill set. I look back in some of my old drawing journals and think, holy shit, I was good as a kid. No one taught me this.
3. How old are you?
43 years old
Libra to the max
Note: A Libra? Into art, music and fashion design? No way…
4. What are you the most proud of, with respect to your artistic journey?
I think what I’m most proud of is that I have participated in some sort of art show nearly every year since I was eighteen. I haven’t stopped creating art and sharing my work.
I remember someone once asking me right before the pandemic what kind of work I did. My response was sullen because I didn’t know how to “define” my work. I told her that I’ve dabbled in nearly everything and was unsure how to explain my art. Her response was so uplifting, “My god. What haven’t you done?!”
It’s true. I’ve done A LOT.
5. What motivates you to share your art with others?
I think one of the motivations had to do with my high school art teacher. She submitted my work to a student contest. That encouragement from an adult of “hey the world needs to see your art,” really gave me confidence and drive.
Another motivation for me is that I literally wear my art. In my teens, I started painting on clothes I found at thrift stores. I was driven to not blend in with the crowd and I’m still that way. I wanted to be like a walking billboard.
Also, I like to bring people together and so having an event around art and community has been a drive. I suppose creating art and sharing it in a space to explain the inspiration behind the art has to do with that.
6. What have you found to be the most difficult about the artist’s life?
Rejection.
All art is subjective and so, like in life, not everyone is going to like your work. It’s like applying for one job after another and constantly being told no.
Another part of rejection is selling. People complaining about the price. As you know, art is expensive and time consuming to make.
So many artists are torn down by the definition of “success” because most people want to see proof that art sustains a living and yet, still expect artists to work for free.
I am not an art whore so there are many opportunities I choose not to take. It has to align with who I am as an artist.
I think Elizabeth Gilbert refers to this as the “shit sandwich”. How much are you willing to put up with for your art?
7. I would love to hear more about this. How do you choose the opportunities that are most aligned for you as an artist? Does your ego try to get involved and tell you to take anything and everything for “exposure” or “publicity”? I think this is something a lot of us deal with, and I’d love to hear an example or two of opportunities you’ve turned down, and why?
I’m very particular when it comes to my art. Most opportunities have to align with my work. Sometimes I feel like Cher Horowitz if she was an artist.
On a rare occasion, I’ve taken an opportunity and it was not what I thought it was going to be. Like the time I had to make stripper pants for a performing artist exhibit. I thought I was going to be making some weird costume. Sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches.
But as you know, all art is subjective. I think getting “exposure” is really about finding the right collaborations, which can be a feat within itself.
Most times, I had to create my own opportunities more than turning down opportunities.
I often get told “no one has ever done that before” or “it’s not a right fit” which makes it a challenge to “sell” an idea and find collaboration.
For example, I showed my video art last summer during an Open Mic night. The host was willing to try, but hesitant because the video was only a minute long and on a loop. I had to be a magician and a sales person in a way. Make the work and figure out how to make the thing happen in real life and assure the host/audience that my work is a fit. In this case, the host loved the video as a background visual and it wasn’t distracting from the performers on stage. And my art worked in this bar setting because of the creative patrons that go there. If this were at a different bar and different open mic night, my work wouldn’t fit in. This is where I’m picky about the kind of exposure I choose for my work.
Another example, nearly 20 years ago, I hosted a music and fashion show at a local concert venue. At the time, no one in town was really showcasing fashion as art. Art spaces and galleries didn’t consider “fashion” as an art medium. So I had to find a way to get my fashion work out there and create it for myself.
Luckily for that fashion show, a lot of people wanted to make that happen for me, including some great friends. And there were some people I had never met, like local bands, who agreed to play the show. And the venue itself is cool, it wasn’t a little dive bar, it aligned with my work as an artist.
I still can’t believe I made that happen with NO MONEY and yet everything came together.
There’s only been a couple of times where I’ve turned down opportunities. Like, when I was making jewelry, a buyer contacted me on Etsy wanting 100 handmade bracelets for a discounted price. The reason I started making jewelry was for everything to be one-of-a-kind. I was against mass production. So even though that would have been a nice chunk of money, I said no.
I’m not going to discount my work even if it leads to future buyers.
I admire the hustle that “art whores” process. They will take any job possible even if it doesn’t align with their aesthetic just to make art. But that’s not me. I want people to say, is this a piece by Joi?
8. What fears have you faced and overcome in this journey?
Telling people that I am an artist. When you’re creative as a kid or teenager, so many people think it’s child’s play. Oh that’s so cute, look at that pretty picture you made.
I’ve been told a majority of my life that I can’t be an artist or be myself. I must “get a real job” and conform. I know I’m not alone in this. And yet, every “regular” job I’ve held, people ask me why the hell I’m working there.
I decided to hell with it.
Now, when people ask me what I do, I talk about my creative work or tell them I’m an artist. People are so much more interested and want to know more.
9. I think so many of us struggle with this. How long did it take you to start referring to your art as your primary profession? What tipped the scale for you?
It’s funny, I just heard that quote from the movie, A Bronx Tale, “the saddest thing in life is wasted talent.”
When people asked what I did for a living, I’d answer with (insert boring desk job here) and everyone’s facial reaction was always so sad.
I’ve always shown up as myself and never conformed, fashionably speaking, which I think prevented job opportunities for me because dressing differently while living in the Midwest still makes people uncomfortable.
It took me nearly 20 years to start referring to myself as an artist. I’ve been actively making art and doing shows since I was eighteen but I defined myself by whatever job I held.
I was showing up as the artist but not telling the world I was one.
So I started to tell people that I’m an artist and have a radio show. Their faces light up! Like, they are so excited for me.
I’ve had many encounters where people act like they “know” me even if we just met. It could be the grocery store clerk, the retail associate, the teacher, the random person on the bus. I think our creative supporters and fans are out there in the world guiding us and rooting for us.
10. What is your next move?
Leaving the door open rather than knocking down doors. Continue to build genuine connections and inform people what I’m about, and what I create.
11. How did you arrive at this strategy vs a more action-oriented strategy?
I guess I should have put it this way. My next move is to have more ease and trust in promoting my work. I noticed I was a bit anxious about putting my work out there.
It was that feeling of always having to promote and find opportunities to get ahead, of banging on the doors too much by trying to force something to happen.
This is a lame example but it felt like I planted a pack of flower seeds, watered it and kept checking it every day to see if any leaves had sprouted. It was that kind of anxiety in wanting my creative business to grow! I realized it was not working.
I decided I’m going to keep talking about my work and what I want to do, keep showing up and continue to connect with people that are genuine. Leave the door open for opportunities to appear.
I started this thing called Mind-Mapping to help me see the bigger picture of what I want to accomplish and the steps I need to take. I’ve got big plans!
12. Do you want to share more about this mind-mapping strategy or how you came upon it?
As an artist, when I was applying for grants or art shows, I really couldn’t really plan because I didn’t know what opportunity was going to land and when. It could be two years down the road or never at all!
Since I’m committed to the life as an artist I realized I needed to plan on a more grander scale rather than just daydreaming about what I want to achieve.
So I signed up for a Masterclass membership and watched the class by journalist and editor, Elaine Welteroth. To accomplish her career goals, she used this strategy called Mind-Mapping.
Example: If I want to speak on panels about women in music or music community, how do I get there? What are the steps? What opportunities are available? Who can I connect with?
It’s a different kind of vision board, it’s more like connecting the dots.
Final thoughts?
The more open I am about my art and what I want to accomplish, the more people are willing to help me.
Thanks again for having be part of this series! these interviews are therapeutic in a way. Essential Artist Shop Talk.
amazing interview!